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Hi Roberto,

I don't know much about ID Theft in France. I guess that, like in many countries, they prefer to be silent about it. I have absolutely no idea if it's a big thing or not in France.

I presume that if you show up with a fake ID and a fake utility bill, then you might get the money.

All I know is that we try to protect ourselves with lots of documents, thinking that it's harder to counterfeit, but the truth is that we've seen many reports on TV about people being stolen their identity and having a hard time proving they are who they pretend to be, and that they did not do what the fraudster did pretending to be them.

Official documents may put the hurdle higher, but it decreases the flexibility of the clearing process once you're ID is stolen.

Hi Roberto,

In France, to be granted a loan by a bank, you need to open an account first.

In order to do so, you need to provide them with:

• printed copy of your ID card
• proof that you still live where you claim to live (last Electricity bill usually)

Then they can check your credit history and decide to grant you with a loan or not.

Most of the time, they just check that your debt is not over 30% of your income.

Hope it helps,

Cedric

I'm not sure they care.

Put yourself in the shoes of a bank.

Say you are losing $100 millions in fraud + fraud detection.

But you are making $250 millions in selling insurance to your customers to fight against fraud.

Would you really be motivated to act in the best interest of your customers?

ps:

I'm going to write a post about it. I'm interested in having the opinion of all the experts of the Finextra community on it.

Thank you David for raising this issue.

Don't get me wrong, I think EMV is a very good thing. But I also think that we need to know its strengths and weaknesses.

I'm french, so I am born 100% full EMV compatible. Actually it's the only mean of payment I've known until I started to travel out of the country.

I was asking you if you had any reliable figure because you certainly know as well as me that fraud figures are extremely hard to get. Banks are not very transparent on this point.

I think the real US figures would surprise more than one person. But you need to look at them in percentage of total transactions otherwise anyone can already predict the conclusion. US is certainly the biggest market in the world, so figures and especially fraud figures need to be analyzed in percentage.

France is also not a very good student as it is very hard to get reliable figures. From what I remember (I'm not in the security business anymore), UK was one of the most transparent.

I'm convinced that the rise of CNP fraud is not due to a rise in terms of 'internet purchases'. As you highlighted, the 'online target' is an easy target. With the EMV, fraudsters are 'moving' from their usual fraud, to online fraud.

I completely join you on the fact that the US business case is very complex.

Unfortunately, even if I'm right, being a security vendor does not pay (that's why lots of them are giving up).

When a bank earns more by selling insurances than the 'cost of fraud', what do you want to sell them???

Even I, if I were a bank, I would build my business model on selling insurances instead of trying to fight fraud. It pays more, is more scalable, is not obsolete as fast... The only bad thing is the image of the bank, but as everybody is doing the same... who cares?

The route to educate consumers is a necessary step,  but it's not the solution.

The solution will have to satisfy 3 parties.

Consumers: Lots and lots of people. Don't know anything about what we're talking about.

Banks: Finite number. Know a little bit about security, know a lot about the consumers.

Security Vendors: Finite number. Know a lot about security, know a little bit about the consumers.

Do you have the fraud figures for the US compared to the UK?

I'm not sure there's a business case for the US. At least that's what they claim most of the time. And they seem to be right.

Regarding the UK, it's true! Local transaction fraud has gone down, but Card Not Present and Cross-border went up.

That's a very well known effect of EMV. Local transaction goes down, but CNP and cross-border go up.

It's true that EMV is a good compromise, but the business case is not that obvious for everybody.

Very good article thank you Roberto.

It raises once again the question of the users' best practices.

When you buy pretty much anything, most of the time you get a manual on how to use it.

Why isn't there a document like this concerning online banking and internet usage in general, that banks would give to their 'internet' users, so there's no discussion to whose fault it is once the crime has been done?

If it does not exist, I'd be interested in contributing in such a document if you think it's a good idea.

And if it exists already, who is supposed to validate it so it's adopted by all the banks?

True. Interesting blog.

But as long as the man-in-the-street will be seen as not able to understand market practices, there will be a problem of communication and image.

I agree with Uri.

The knowledge required to be safe on the internet today is so huge and changing every day, that it's almost a full time job.

How do you want to explain someone who hardly knows how to surf what a man-in-the-browser is?

Efforts have to be made on every side, but the users' side will take time to be educated.

Security vendors have to keep that in mind when developping their solutions.